John grew up in December 1167. He had been at most 21 and you may possibly younger than if his daughter Joanna was created. She may was in fact the newest eldest of the many students the guy fathered of the his certain mistresses.
1187 June - John inside France when Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 29 - Henry yields so you're able to England, perhaps which have John inside the tow 1188 Summer - Henry delivers John back once again to Normandy, crosses out of 1189 Summer a dozen - John during the Le Mans whenever disarmed of the Henry's buy, after which John fled or was provided away to have shelter 1189 July six - Henry I dies into the France 1189 Aug. several - Richard provides John back to The united kingdomt which have your 1189 Aug. 29 - John married to help you Isabelle regarding Gloucester from the Marlebridge 1189 September. step three - Richard crowned during the Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard sends John to the Wales so you're able to subdue brand new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you're able to Normandy and you can pushed to your oath to not set base on England for a few ages 1190 June - Richard goes on campaign [John vacations their oath] For our objectives, it is thought that the very first period, together with really more than likely returning to Joanna to own already been formulated, is the 1187-9 period. 1187 - John spends almost the season from inside the France 1188 - John possess gone back to The united kingdomt inside January, however, from the summer is distributed back to France, where he appears to have remained 1189 - John seems to be within the France January - August, coming back so you can The united kingdomt inside August in preparation to have their matrimony to the 30 Aug. If the John generated not any longer unrecorded yields so you can The united kingdomt, it seems that he spent on the 80% from his go out out-of January 1187 until their marriage, in France . He was will ultimately considering the State away from Mortain, in the Normandy (ahead of Richard's coronation).
The aforementioned recommendations, because of the period in addition to undeniable fact that Joanna are introduced to help you England out of France inside 1203 to possess their particular relationships so you can Llywelyn, lends credence to the idea that Joanna along with her mom was indeed from French/Norman origin.
Offered plus John's well-understood philandering during this time, here is apparently many applicants to your part out of mother from Joanna!
Immediately after a unique long research however, I could see zero shadow off a Clemence de- Dauntsey into the the brand new information
My prior blog post offered what you to Paget showed that it was Clemence de- Dauntsey, who hitched Nicholas de- Verdun. I believed that it was the Nicholas and you may Clementia so you’re able to exactly who Henry 111 supplied the fresh custody away from Susanna (since a good hostage) in the 1228. I did get a hold of although not, the advice of just one genealogist exactly who demonstrably mentioned it as…’ I do believe that individuals (brand new genealogists) established that there try zero instance person because Clemence de- Dauntsey. You to identity of your own wife regarding Nicholas de- Verdun try good blunder because of the Paget!’
Clemence ce Boteler came into this world in the 1175 when you look at the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire
I am prepared to accept that conclusion, given that next investigation of your details of one’s next Clemence turned-out so much more fruitful.
Clemence ce Boteler partnered Nicholas de Verdun inside 1202 (their 2nd spouse once their marriage so you’re able to Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, it matrimony isn’t shown) during the Alton, Staffordshire and additionally they got one child, Rohese de Verdun who was simply created inside 1203 or 1205 (died. Feb 1247).
If the, in reality, Joanna was caused by a beneficial liaison ranging from John and you will Clemence le Boteler (that would had been old to 14-fifteen during the time), it would had been very hard into the Le Boteler household members to track down a suitable spouse having Clemence. Actually certain a decade violation in advance of an excellent ily?) which have a trusting English nobleman and you will property proprietor, Nicholas de Verdun. Leaving away for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had fell crazy about the new twenty-seven yr old Clemence and you will desired to get married their unique, it might was indeed important for John to incorporate Clemence that have some assets of her very own to make sure that she turned a far more glamorous prize to possess their own husband to TГјrk karД±sД± be.